Allotment Means testing
Sun, 04/05/2008 - 21:04 — andrew
The Edinburgh Evening News recently reported that councillor Elizabeth Maginnis has called for a review to examine if
someone who has access to a garden should be allowed to apply for an allotment. This is supposed to be a way to reduce the waiting list (basically by disqualifying a huge number of applicants).
I can't see how this could possibly work. At what point do you say that a garden is big enough to disqualify you? What if you live in rented or shared accommodation and cannot use the garden for growing vegetables? What if you move house after you applied? What if your garden simply isn't suitable for growing veg? This idea has so many possibilities for unfairness and bureaucratic mistakes and costs.
Every applicants home would have to be visited and surveyed, who would do this and how much would it cost? Would other background information be taken into account next - number of children, married, sex, age?
The waiting list is large because of the huge demand for plots. It is only going to get larger. We need more sites and more plots to deal with it.
New forum topics
Events
Upcoming events
- Pilrig Park Allotments Open Day and BBQ(5 days)
- Outdoor Food(11 days)
- West Mains Allotments Open Day(19 days)
- An Introduction to Organic Gardening(39 days)
- Outdoor Food(60 days)
- Apple Day(81 days)
More Allotments is the solution
As a plot holder and the owner of a small garden I find the above posts very divisive. My garden is not suitable for veg growing (too shaded by neighbour's trees, too small and has shallow soil over rock). Surely the point here is how to get an many people as possible growing their own veg. The key to this is for the council to provide more allotments to meet the demand. Anyone who lives in the Edinburgh Council area should be eligible for an allotment irrespective of age, gender or the type of accommodation they live in. Making sure plots are fully utilised and only owned by those who live locally will help but the thing that will make the most difference is the creation of more allotment sites (such as the new one at Bridge End) or the expansion of existing ones.
The council will welcome with open arms any suggestion as to how to reduce the waiting list by means testing as they removes the responsibility from them. The council seem more interested in raising money by selling off allotment land for housing (see http://www.fedaga.org.uk/node/147) than investing to provide the facilities for residents to grow fruit and vegetables. The suggestion if implemented by the council would exclude a huge number – possibly a majority – from enjoying the well documented benefits of running an allotment. All those with a desire to grow their own veg must stick together and press the council for more allotment plots.
remember why the allotments exist
It is a bit galling to think that someone with a garden could get an application in a few minutes before me, and end up with an allotment months before I do. That person already has the pleasure of a garden, whilst I do not. I'm all for means testing on a points based system. The system should take into account waiting time, children, garden at home and income etc. The whole point of allotments was to provide space for food growing for families on low incomes who may not a suitable space at home. Does 50 year old Fred with children at university and a garden at home fit into this?
There are other ways to get the list down. Have open days (early in the growing season, when the work is typically the hardest) where prospective allotment holders can get a feel for the work needed. This will prune a few off the list.
Allotment users and the council need to be more vigilant for abandoned plots and those that break the rules. So that the plots can be handed over to those that will use them more quickly. (I don't know how good they are at this, but there seems to be several abandoned plots at the allotments near me)
You will get a plot!
Thank you for your comments, Lil, you have my complete sympathy. The original intention of providing allotments for those without access to a garden seems to have been set aside; to provide a hobby for what seems to be the mainly middle class, a lot of whom already have a garden of their own (the majority on some sites).
Bridgend is supposed to provide support to the disadvantaged but I do wonder how many plot holders there actually fall into that category?
Active committees do their best to highlight problem plots to the Council. New procedures have been put in place (devised by FEDAGA and the Council) to improve cultivation. However, there are some very resistent "absent" plot holders who do their best to avoid eviction, and do not care how unpopular their neglect of their plots makes them to the rest of the site.
The downside of the publicising of the waiting lists is that these sort of people will hang on like grim death to their plots/will threaten legal action or going to a newspaper. My site has certainly improved since these new procedures were introduced.
When you do get a plot (and you will!) please take an active interest in the site, maybe even join the committee. We need people like you to inject new ideas and fresh interest.
Hopefully as you get closer to the top of the list those above you will have lost interest/moved away.
In the meantime why not contact your local Councillors (there are three or four per ward and they should all act on your behalf) and ask for support for Councillor Maginnis' Motion?
Has anyone asked those on the waiting list?!
This proposal was prompted by a prospective plot holder approaching their Councillor, Elizabeth Maginnis.
It would be interesting to know what others on the waiting list feel about this suggestion. The emphasis on the suggestion should be placed on giving priority to those without gardens, and not presumably on removing those with gardens. Not quite the same!
At the end of the day, those on the massive waiting list are the ones who are suffering. Whilst it is interesting to hear the vociferous views of some with existing plots (and gardens!) who are against the proposal (surprisingly enough!), it would be more pertinent to hear the views of those without either (and those with gardens and without plots).
It would be lovely to have a new site opened up every six months but realistically speaking this is most unlikely given the pressure on land in Edinburgh for housebuilding and on funding generally.
Means Testing Issue
It was myself who raised the issue of allotment fairness with Elizabeth Maginnis. I admit that I took the issue to every name within the council who I felt was capable of progressing change. The responses from many members of the local authority were quite poor and did not address the many concerns that I raised.
I raised issues regarding the transparency of the waiting list and the poor information in terms of my position on the list. I also highlighted information regarding the poor upkeep of plots,leapfrogging,subletting of plots and people offering half their plots to their plot neighbours on a site within the Edinburgh North Ward. All of these factors play a part on the length of the waiting list and also inferred that the management was poor. Although I do not have first hand experience of this I do have friends, whom I trust, that have a plot who passed all the information on.
The Council vociferously defended their position, understandbly, however I lacked faith in what they were telling me or that any action would be taken to investigate the matter. They merely wanted to palm me off and sweep the matter under the carpet in true council fashion.
Of all the issues I raised the one that I felt most passionately about was that people who have ample space and opportunity to grow vegetables on their own properties, and chose not to, were classed as the same priority as myself. I am a young father staying in a city centre tennement and I honestly believe that my needs are greater than those choosing not to cultivate their own land. I do not have a choice and these people do. I am not suggesting that means testing me implemented - a simple check on someone's primary Edinburgh residence will indicate if they have ample room to cultivate or not. It's not rocket science.
I have heard that plot holders are now worried that they may lose their plots, this is not my intention - all I want is for the council to draw a line in the sand and improve the current process.
I believe that the ethos of allotments are to support lower income, inner city people who do not have space. Through time we seem to have forgotten this.
I appreciate that people will say that it is the lack of land that is the issue and not the smaller points that I have raised. Irrespective of the larger issue I hold firm to my belief that the current process is unfair.
Unfortunately by pursuing my belief I will already have alienated myself from my future plot neighbours which is a shame but I honestly believe there is a fairer approach than that which is currently offered. Management of the list on a basis of need must play a part.
Kind regards
Mark Quinn.
Prioritising those in need- not means testing!
Hi Mark,
Thank you very much for joining the discussion. It is great that you raised this very pertinent issue, so do not feel apologetic about having to do this.
Historically, allotments were aimed at giving the working man and his family fresh air, exercise and access to cheap, fresh food. Quite how this translates to the "typical" present day suburban semi-retired garden owner making a regular car run to Lidl and Waitrose I do not know! I know there are exceptions; more and more tenement dwellers and young families are gaining plots, but they are not the majority yet.
I completely agree about the worrying issue of poor plots and sub letting. The new improvement and termination procedures address the poor cultivation issue (or abandonment in some cases!) For these to work, committees need to be strong and work together with the Council. More plot holders need to show an interest and raise local issues with their own committees; directly to the Council if they feel that their committees are not addressing their concerns. Sub letting is an infringement of the lease and we know it does go on. It shouldn't and it's time committees and the Council took action on this. Without people providing information and proof it will carry on.
However, I would like to think things are improving generally on most sites.
Could your friends on their plot in North Edinburgh not approach their committee and ask for action to be taken? It must be very galling for you to see those underworked plots.
I am not sure how leapfrogging can exist. Each site representative receives a copy of their own waiting list and can see the order in which vacant plots are allocated. Very often, those at the top lose interest, or have moved away so plots can be allocated to the next person. Why not ask to meet the Allotment Officer to see the waiting list on your preferred site/s? He is very helpful.
I am sorry to hear that other Councillors/officials were not so supportive. It is a bit of a specialist area I suppose. I was saddened to hear one Councillor say they were confident this Motion would fail, having made this a political issue!
"Means testing" is an inappropriate term, prioritising to those most in need is more appropriate. Some peoples' reactions to this have become a bit hysterical! I'm sure there was never any intention to evict existing plot holders with gardens.
A bit of scare-mongering going on there I think!
As you say, it is not rocket science- one more question on the application form "Do you have a garden?" Easy enough to tell from the address whether someone does or not. Anyone making a false statement/falsifying their address should be warned their application will become null and void. Those with gardens could go on a secondary list, those on the primary list taking priority.
Do not worry about what your prospective neighbours will think of you; you're only doing what you feel necessary to make the system fairer. They probably won't even know about the Motion; a lot of plot holders concentrate on their own plot and do not get involved in allotment issues.
Finally, lack of land and funds is a problem but, as you say, with more effective plot management and a fairer allocation system great improvements can be made with the existing stock. I would like to think that in ten or twenty years most plot holders will be flat dwellers.
I believe a garden sharing scheme, already suggested many years ago, may be resurrected. I do not know why people feel they cannot grow vegetables in their gardens, is it a case of "What would the neighbours think?"!
I know there are lots of plot holders who agree with this idea, so don't lose faith (those who are opposed are just that bit noisier!) I also know that some of the general public are surprised at what they perceive as greed on the part of those who already have gardens!
Check out the link to the original Evening News report and the comments- see Andrew's first thread above.
Kind regards
Pauline
Allotment Waiting Lists - The Fair Approach
Thanks for the words of support Pauline. I raised the sub-letting issue with a member of the Inverleith committee, he mentioned that at their last meeting someone openly admitted they did not have a plot and had been working it on behalf of someone else. They were not even challenged by the committee members which is sad - my source did not want to go out on a limb but is looking to tackle these issues in due course.
I've fed the info to Ian Woolard, the allotment officer.
Elizabeth Maginnis has e-mailed me this evening to advise that the council have accepted the motion and she will pass me a copy of a report when one is available. Not sure what that means - I presume a report is compiled before they vote for change or something.
Thanks,
Mark.
Fairer allocation system
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the update- if the Council have accepted the Motion that is fantastic!
I have said all along that the Council are our landlords, we are council tenants and not the landed gentry! We get a really good deal as it is with our affordable rents and the services we receive; so if they decide to modernise the system to reflect modern life and, in the process, have to drag some kicking and screaming into the 21st Century then that is their decision to make.
(I had started to wonder whether we were becoming like an exclusive golf club...!)
I'd be really interested to see Councillor Maginnis's email. I suspect the report is as compiled by the Parks Department which was requested by the Council when the Motion was first raised (ie some sort of feasability study).
Like you I have been hearing more and more horror stories about sub letting, plotholders with more than one plot etc recently.The new procedures tackle the cultivation issue (minimum of 75% cultivation), eviction process etc but not the other issues. Time the lease was updated too, and dealt with in a more robust fashion by committees and the Council.
If you'd like to forward me a copy of the email, that would be great (pjayvee77@hotmail.co.uk). If there is anything else I can do to help the campaign please let me know.
Kind regards
Pauline
Fairer Allocation System
Elizabeth didn't give any timescales however when the report comes through, you are the first on the list.
Thanks,
Mark.
Please don't attack us!
Although I have been a plot holder for a number of years, I’ve recently come to the FEDAGA site. I’ve been reading the exchanges from Lil, Pauline and Mark re allotment means testing with a mixture of sadness and dismay.
There is undoubtedly a problem with the length of waiting lists, abandonment of plots, lack of plots etc., and those strange people who cover their plots in bark chippings rather than cultivate. I agree that these are issues that should, and need, to be tackled.
I would actively support any efforts in this direction. However, I feel strongly that attacking fellow plot holders, particularly those you perceive as being ‘unworthy’ of being one by virtue of having some of garden via this forum is nothing short of disgraceful. Some of your comments seem to smack of nothing more than an ‘I want and I haven’t got’ attitude, totally detracting from the positive angles in your arguments and activities. T
I came on to this site to see what fellow allotmenteers are up to and to see how I might become more involved with any activities aimed at advancing the allotment cause. However, I leave feeling attacked and dismayed that there is so much bitterness and anger directed at fellow allotmenteers. If you have an enemy, it’s not us.
means testing, etc. etc.
Hollyjosh I'm with you on this one. Sadness and dismay. I've only just recieved the key for my allotment and thought I'd look at this site for some chums and support. I know it's an old topic but I feel that I need to say something anyway.
If plots were means tested, I may not fall into the category.
When I applied I had a large garden that was shared with two other stairwells and was used by between 10-15 dogs as a toilet. Neither myself or my son could use the garden at all, it wasn't safe.
I have since moved and still have a garden but am not allowed to make any changes (appart from pots I've stuck in around the place). As I move around every couple of years my 'catchment' would change and I would never have gotten a plot.
Means testing may seem like a good idea on the surface, but people will always fall through the net.
If I have a garden albeit in rented accomadation and my partner earns enough money for me to buy plenty of veg, does that mean I am not entitled to a pitch? Seem rediculous, I'm a student and because my partner earns money I'm not entitled to any of the benefits that my fellow students are entitled to (e.g. dentist, prescriptions, grants, childcare etc etc).
I share my allotment with my friend, we had always talked about doing this (my partner has no interest in gardening, despite him now requesting certain vegetables), it was only ever me on the list, she didn't bother as we thought that two people on the list would make the list longer and always wanted to share. Some of you may think this is subletting? I have been on the list for just over five years. When I put my name up for one I was a full time chef, owned my own flat was pregnant with my now five year old son. As I said before I am now a student in rented accomadation that moves around. How would means testing work here, I feel I've waited my turn and shouldn't be made to feel guilty because I don't fall in to the criteria and ideology of some on this particular discussion, I asked for an allotment anywhere and said I would travel to it, which I do (outwith catchment) but that meant only waiting five years.
Energy needs to go into more green space. Allotments are a public health issue, fresh air and being able to grow you're own food are paramount in this whether you are an elderly man and your kids are at university or not.
Waiting Lists
I personally feel that Allotment waiting lists should have a catchment area, this would erase a whole lot of people of the list straight away. I live locally, and know many people who are on the list and can't get a place, how daft is that! I was particularly annoyed last year when a lady with a plot close to me, announced that she actually lives on the west coast and works here in Edinburgh! Now that is just not right. There are many people on our site who travel a great distance, I dont feel that is right.
I also think we could reduce the waiting list by operating a shared system, eg give 2 people a plot with an agreement when the next plot come up they have to share that with someone else until their name come up, ie rotational, I beleive this would help plot holders start of, as we all know it can be soul destroying at the beginning, and also it will give the person waiting a chance to see if they would actually like it or not.
But again, plots should have a catchment as we do with schools. We of course would require more allotment sites, but it would be much fairer.