westburn allotment site
Mon, 16/02/2009 - 13:58 — emma thom
Hi folks.
My husband and i are looking for an allotment in the west of edinburgh.
We were told that our best chance of getting a plot would be at the westburn site in westerhailes.
We went to this site at the weekend to see what sort of waiting time there is. When we got there we were told by some members working there plots, that they did not know how long the waiting list was but they did tell my husband that there are at least fifteen members of this asociation who have two plots instead of one. When asked why this was, we were told that it has allways been like this in this association. Is this legal? If not what can be done about it?
Note - this post has been edited by the site administrator to remove references to anyone by name. Please avoid referring to any individual by name in a derogatory manner.
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hi anne i am looking for a
hi anne i am looking for a bit of advice. i live in livingston where there are no council run allotments. do u have any information as to how i go about getting the council to provide council run allotments. i know there is one private run allotment but the waiting list is too long.
any information or advice would be most helpful and really appreciated
shell
xx
getting an allotment
Hi Shell
Have a look at this document for some info:
http://www.sags.org.uk/docs/AllotmentsGuidance2006.pdf
I would also contact the council/ your councillor and be prepared to keep going back. If you can identify unused council land and find some more folk who would also like an allotment plot to ask for one with you so much the better. Good luck!
Anne
waiting times edinburgh
hi i applied nov 2008 waiting times are 3to 7 years. depending on site you want you are allowed 3 choices.
Waiting times
Hi Emma,
I wouldn't worry about upsetting anyone, most plotholders don't get involved in the politics of allotment management- they are there to de-stress not add to life's stresses!
You would be most unlikely to get a plot within the three years of your stay in Edinburgh on any of the Council managed sites, all sites have at least a three year wait, most somewhat longer. There are at least 1,500 applicants ahead of you, and only around 1,400 plots!
I would go back to Plan A; you obviously live near the Westburn site, there are obviously plots available (or should be available) if many have more than one plot. It's not just yourself you'll be helping, there must be others like yourselves in the same situation.
Good luck
Westburn (Wester Hailes)
Hi Emma,
That sounds really unfair. I had already heard rumours of multiple tenancies there but now it seems that it is true. Unfortunately I don't think they are members of FEDAGA.
Do you know anyone who has a plot there? If so, ask them for a copy of their Constitution, if they have one. If not they should at least have Site Rules. See what the Rules state, and find out if they have an AGM and when. If you do know a plotholder there get them to ask questions at it.
The land they occupy is owned by the Council although I believe it is self managed. Presumably they are answerable to the Council if their land was provided by them.
Anyone from Westburn on this forum?
Maybe they haven't a waiting list and have had to cultivate more than one plot to keep it occupied?!
That sounds most unlikely though given the size of Edinburgh's waiting lists generally!!!!
If it isn't illegal it is certainly immoral given the huge demand for plots city wide.
Might be worth asking the local Councillors to investigate- they probably receive Council grants too.
Westburn allotments
Hi pauline.
Thanks for your advice, my husband is a bit concerned that if we ruffle any more feathers
in this association, it will only work against us if we ever did get an allotment there. We are only in edinburgh for three years, so its probably not worth the hassle of going to the council. What are the general waiting times for allotments in the edinburgh area?
west burn site
It does sound very unfair, what with the waiting lists. How about going to the council, Ian Woolard is our contact, you can find info on allotment contacts on the Edinburgh City Council website. Maybe contact with your local councillor might be of use.
Good Luck
westburn allotments.
Hi teenycms.
My husband contacted ian woolard about this matter. He conceded that there are at least twenty people with two plots on this site, he claimed there was nothing the council could do as this site is not run by the council. When my husbsnd pointed out that this is public land and these people are acting illegally and immorally he did not seem remotely concerned that there are 1400 people on the waiting list. We are currently taking legal advice as to what we should do next, not just for ourselves, but for all the people in edinburgh in need of an allotment. We would welcome any advice from others on this matter.
waiting list
I agree it is odd that its a public site, and he is unable to do something about it. How about your MSP and councillors.
Who officially runs the site? if you can find that out it might be worth approaching them.
Of course this all stems from the days when no one wanted an allotment, and many went unkempt and were taken up by other allotmenteers, and in a way they have done us all a favour, by keeping these sites tidy and productive. So I can see why these folk will not give up the extra plot.
How about going after a site that has unkempt plots, every site has some even ours at Bridge End, and campaign to get one of these plots.
You could get a hold of the rules, and see if you can find something in the rules to help you.
How about starting a site up yourself? Is there any land near you that belongs to the council, that isn't being used, see if the council will let you start one up. The River cottage guy has advice on his web site on how to go about this. I think there is some legislation that if the demand is there the council have to provide land, but you would need to research that.
Westburn allotments
I've signed up here since, as Secretary of WHAA, I was becoming more and more amazed at some of the utterly wrong things being said about the association.
WHAA (Wester Hailes Allotment Association) is a private association which is run by its members (that is the plot holders). At its annual AGM the members elect a committee to do the day-to-day running of the allotments on their behalf.
We have a constitution which is approved by Edinburgh Council and a copy of which can be obtained from me if you are an official body or its representative or a member of WHAA.
We have a waiting list which currently stands at about 28. If you wish to add your name to that list you can contact me (Ian Woolard has my contact numbers/address and regularly puts people in touch with me.) As far as I am aware there are no plots free. There were 3 available last month (2 of them half plots).
There are not 20 members with two plots, there are not even 15 members with 2 plots. To the best of my knowledge there are 2 on the West side (+ 1 lady with 2 half plots) and 3 on the East side. As suggested by another poster this is a historical anomaly: 3 years ago there was no waiting list and several plots lying vacant. The AGM of 2007 decided that no plot holder with 2 plots would be forced to give one up but that no member would be let 2 plots in the future. That is the system we operate as a committee. The Council knows that we operate this system and I think you will find that it is widespread and also that both MSPs and Councillors consider it to be fair and equitable.
We are not a secret society: all our meetings and action plans are minuted and displayed publicly at the allotments.
Anyone who was really interested in getting a plot only needs to ask for me or any other committee member at the allotments to have their name put on the waiting list. IanWoolard also has contact information as already said.
I volunteer about 8-10 hours of my time every month to ensure the smooth running of the allotments as do the other eight committee members, but actually we have an allotment because we enjoy the outdoors, the growing and the produce. It's a hobby, it's relaxing and it's fun. It's really not about politics at all.
Oh by the way Emma, I don't know whose feathers you think you've ruffled but you're OK cos I hold the list and you certainly haven't ruffled mine! ;0)) Get in touch and I'll add you to the list.
Hope this helps!
Anne
westerhailes allotments
Anne. I must respond to the utterly wrong things you have said about the westerhailes allotment association, as secretary of this association you should know better! Firstly the lady in question does have TWO plots, you know it, she knows it, and so does every other member in the association know it, or have you recently cooked the books to make it look like she has two half plots? Let no one be in any doubt, this lady has two plots, it has been official for four years. This is a time when the demand for allotments is unprecedented in the westerhailes area, but these shameless, greedy individuals think having TWO plots is ok. Untill you are completely open and upfront about issues in this closed society, will you be taken seriously and be able to change peoples views of this thoroughly discredited association. Steve.
Well Steve, you have your
Well Steve, you have your opinion and I have my facts. Are you a plot holder at WHAA that you appear to have such intimate if erroneous information about the Association? And if not what are your credentials for publicising this nonsense? Someone you don't like perhaps and want to upset?
You refer to "the lady in question". I have reread all the posts in this thread. What lady are we talking here? Nobody except me has referred to a lady and it so happens that the lady I referred to has two half plots which she took on in 2007. And your point is??
Do you think that, as the person who holds the membership lists I don't know who has which plots? And why should I, or the Association for that matter, which is a democratically organised and run association, be answerable to someone like you, who, without having the courage and honesty to declare yourself and your interests openly, is prepared to make libellous statements about me and the Association. How dare you!
You refer to shameless, greedy individuals. Again, how dare you! These are the people who kept the allotments going over the many years before an allotment became a required fashion accessory. Further, it is for the membership of the Association to take these decisions, not some punter who is out to cause mischief.
Hello Ann.I must say i am
Hello Ann.
I must say i am most surprised by your reply, your aggressive and disparaging tone towards me is completely unnecessary and suggests i am closer to the truth than you would like. I am certainly not just any old punter out to cause mischief as you suggest, how could you think such a thing? I am however a decent fair-minded person, letting allotment people know what underhand practices are currently ongoing at the westburn allotment site. An area set aside in 1977 so local people, mostly from deprived backgrounds, could have an area of recreation, where they could grow fresh fruit and vegetables, but has since been hijacked by some very selfish individuals who have put GREED before NEED. I have been involved with this site from its inception, some 32 years ago, i have many contacts from both east and west sides, there is very little i don't know!! There are no secrets about this association, indeed this is west edinburgh's worst kept secret. Let me explain. It is a myth to suggest that no one wanted these plots over years, the facts are, the committees in the past simply weren't up to the job of allocating plots. Committees comprised of unelected hard men that used there fists as negotiating tools. Plots were always allocated on the basis of what pub you drank in in the local area, preference was always given to those people and there family's who drank in the Hailes hotel public bar, followed closely by the club 85. Anyone objecting to this form of allocation was subjected to a punch in the face, knee in the groin or in my wife's case her car windscreen being smashed, three times over the course of a 6 month period. This sort of allocation turned the eastside allotments into a notorious drinking den and a no go area for family's and individuals seeking a plot on this site, it was fear and intimidation that kept people away from this site, not fashion as you naively suggest. Does it really surprise you there were that many plots that went unallocated? There was one individual who had a staggering seven plots to himself on the eastside, and one individual on the westside who had four!! This was and still is the sort of underhand behaviour that went on at this site. This is despite letting the relevant authorities know what was going on. If anyone from the council is reading this please let me know your opinion on this matter. Those individuals who currently have two plots at westburn are not some sort of unsung heroes in need of praise, they are simply people in breach of an associations constitution which clearly states it is, one plot per household, and are simply putting greed before need, thus denying thousands of allotment seeking individuals the pleasure of having an allotment, can you not see this? You also accused me of singling out one individual for having two plots, well i was simply making the point that as this individual was the former chairwoman, you really would think she would have know better and would want to have lead by example don't you !!!!!
steve.
My sincere commiserations to Steve and his wife
It's a wonder anyone would still want a plot at that site after all of these revelations! Can't keep silence anymore on this; I still haven't recovered from Ann's closing paragraph on one of her previous comments (in April):
"Oh by the way Emma, I don't know whose feathers you think you've ruffled but you're OK cos I hold the list and you certainly haven't ruffled mine! ;0)) Get in touch and I'll add you to the list."
Condescending, nauseating or both?!
I wonder whether Emma is anywhere near the top of the list yet...
Seems like a little bit of power goes to some people's heads. I remember sparring with some air head calling herself "Gardening chick" or something equally tacky a while ago on the Evening News forum on an article about allotments. She seemed to think that site reps and committees on Council sites had nothing to do- so full was she of her own self importance on having the "power" to allocate plots... Goodness, it's only a list of names and addresses, not the Holy Grail.
As Council money (our money- the Council tax payers' money) was used to set up this site it would appear the time is now well overdue for the Council to regain management of its site. Council-run sites aren't perfect but at least they are dealt with in an equable manner, with more transparency- and a good deal less violence!
Hope some good comes out of all this.
Pauline